Welcome to another episode of On the Up, Moneypenny’s podcast dedicated to exploring growth, innovation, and the strategies that drive business success.
In this episode, Dan Marshall sits down with Charlotte Wiseman, founder and CEO of Step Inside, to discuss how we can train and develop both current leaders and the next generation of business leaders in today’s rapidly evolving workplace.
Leadership development has never been more critical or complex. With multiple generations working together, each driven by different values and expectations, leaders face unprecedented challenges in bringing out the best in their teams. In this insightful conversation, Charlotte shares her evidence-based approach to leadership development, drawing from neuroscience, positive psychology, and behavioural science.
The discussion explores the current state of leadership within organisations, examining how factors like the pandemic and generational shifts have created new demands on leaders at every level. From senior executives struggling to connect with younger generations to middle managers promoted for their technical skills without leadership training, Charlotte provides practical wisdom for developing effective leaders across all levels.
If you’re leading a team, developing leadership programmes, or simply curious about what it takes to create sustainable leadership development, this episode offers valuable insights backed by scientific research and real-world application.
Charlotte emphasises the importance of grounding leadership development in robust scientific research rather than trendy concepts without proven impact. As she explains, everything Step Inside does is founded on neuroscience, positive psychology, and behavioural science principles. This evidence-based approach ensures that leadership development creates sustainable behaviour change rather than just temporary learning.
While emotional intelligence was groundbreaking, Charlotte argues that emotional agility is the evolution leaders need today. The traditional interpretation of emotional intelligence often led to the misconception that leaders should make everyone happy all the time. Emotional agility, however, teaches leaders to sit with discomfort, maintain clear thinking during difficult conversations, and understand that sometimes leadership requires making people temporarily unhappy for the greater good.
Drawing from researcher Timothy Clark’s work, Charlotte outlines four levels of psychological safety: inclusion safety (the foundation where people feel included), learner safety (where people can ask questions and experiment), contributor safety (where people freely share new ideas), and challenger safety (where people can call out mistakes and challenge the status quo). Understanding these levels helps leaders create environments where teams can truly thrive.
Charlotte firmly believes that leadership can be trained and developed, but the key is helping people understand what leadership means to them personally. She shares the story of a participant who initially felt that being a leader “doesn’t feel right” but discovered they could be authentic and human while leading effectively. The transformation from knowledge to action requires tapping into intrinsic motivation.
Some of the most powerful conversations in organisations are the uncomfortable ones, particularly around generational differences and assumptions. Charlotte advocates for creating safe spaces where these conversations can happen, recognising that underneath apparent differences, all generations share similar core values of wanting to do good work and contribute to success.
Rather than expecting magnificent changes overnight, Charlotte emphasises that tiny behavioural adjustments create the most significant leadership impact. Daily reflection practices, asking “what am I missing?” in conversations, and building regular feedback loops are examples of micro behaviours that compound over time.
Today’s leaders must navigate teams with very different values, motivations, and communication styles. Success comes from moving beyond “othering” different generations and instead having open conversations about assumptions, strengths, and how to harness the full potential of diverse perspectives working together.
As Charlotte notes, change has become “the new oxygen” – it’s not a discrete initiative anymore but a continuous reality. Leaders must develop skills for preparing teams for change, sustaining performance through transitions, and accelerating positive impact after changes are implemented.
Charlotte offers two excellent book recommendations for our On the Up Book Club:
“The Happiness Advantage” by Shawn Achor – Despite initial scepticism about the title, Charlotte found this book transformative in understanding how positive psychology can improve workplace performance. While not the most current research, it provides an accessible introduction to evidence-based approaches that can genuinely impact organisational culture.
“Slow Productivity” by Cal Newport – Published in 2024, this book challenges the current pace of work and argues that our relentless speed actually inhibits optimal performance while impairing wellbeing and resilience. Newport provides thought-provoking perspectives on what effective working really looks like.
Listen now to the full conversation with Charlotte Wiseman as she reveals more insights about evidence-based leadership development, creating psychological safety, and building leaders who can thrive in today’s complex workplace environment.
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